"I am very excited to speak with someone willing to provide philosophical pushback. The argument is solid, but I don't agree with the central premise. I don't think there is as much happiness and goods in life as is claimed. I think that a lot of the things we think we do in order to become happier, we actuall…
"I am very excited to speak with someone willing to provide philosophical pushback. The argument is solid, but I don't agree with the central premise. I don't think there is as much happiness and goods in life as is claimed. I think that a lot of the things we think we do in order to become happier, we actually do to avoid suffering from the deprivation.
For example:
1. We do not eat just for pleasure, but to prevent hunger. The fundamental thing about a meal is to calm hunger.
2. We do not have sex solely for pleasure but to avoid the pain caused by the frustration of unresolved sexual tension.
3. We do not look for a companion just for being happy together but also for not being sad and lonely.
4. We do not go on vacation once a year to a distant country only to enjoy new experiences, exotic foods, and paradisiacal places, but to avoid the boredom and frustration of staying in the usual city, always doing the same.
If I became convinced that people do the majority of their life activities in pursuit of happiness, pleasure, or eudaimonia and not because they want to avoid suffering associated with not doing said activities, then I would concede that antinatalism is philosophically undermined."
I find that argument puzzling, because a far more effective way to avoid frustration, hunger, etc., is to simply kill oneself, and yet most of us clearly have no wish to do that. The fact that we're still alive, and (more or less) happy to be alive, shows that we value positive things and not just the avoidance of negative things.
At root, the core question is just: "Is life worth it, all things considered?" We shouldn't assume that the answer will be the same for everyone. If someone's answer is "no," then that's really sad (for their sake) to hear. But obviously many of us answer more positively.
On the assumption that attitudes here are to some extent hereditary, it seems a good rule of thumb would be for miserable people to refrain from reproducing, and for people who are happy with their lives to go ahead and have kids (if they want to). I certainly wouldn't want to pressure an anti-natalist to change their personal decisions around reproduction. That's their choice. But I guess I do think it's irresponsible for them to discourage happier people from having kids, just based on their own personal experiences being negative. People vary!
This is what she sent to me!
"I am very excited to speak with someone willing to provide philosophical pushback. The argument is solid, but I don't agree with the central premise. I don't think there is as much happiness and goods in life as is claimed. I think that a lot of the things we think we do in order to become happier, we actually do to avoid suffering from the deprivation.
For example:
1. We do not eat just for pleasure, but to prevent hunger. The fundamental thing about a meal is to calm hunger.
2. We do not have sex solely for pleasure but to avoid the pain caused by the frustration of unresolved sexual tension.
3. We do not look for a companion just for being happy together but also for not being sad and lonely.
4. We do not go on vacation once a year to a distant country only to enjoy new experiences, exotic foods, and paradisiacal places, but to avoid the boredom and frustration of staying in the usual city, always doing the same.
If I became convinced that people do the majority of their life activities in pursuit of happiness, pleasure, or eudaimonia and not because they want to avoid suffering associated with not doing said activities, then I would concede that antinatalism is philosophically undermined."
I find that argument puzzling, because a far more effective way to avoid frustration, hunger, etc., is to simply kill oneself, and yet most of us clearly have no wish to do that. The fact that we're still alive, and (more or less) happy to be alive, shows that we value positive things and not just the avoidance of negative things.
At root, the core question is just: "Is life worth it, all things considered?" We shouldn't assume that the answer will be the same for everyone. If someone's answer is "no," then that's really sad (for their sake) to hear. But obviously many of us answer more positively.
On the assumption that attitudes here are to some extent hereditary, it seems a good rule of thumb would be for miserable people to refrain from reproducing, and for people who are happy with their lives to go ahead and have kids (if they want to). I certainly wouldn't want to pressure an anti-natalist to change their personal decisions around reproduction. That's their choice. But I guess I do think it's irresponsible for them to discourage happier people from having kids, just based on their own personal experiences being negative. People vary!