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Daniel Greco's avatar

Yes to all of this. Here's some psychological speculation about why we do this. Part of the professional deformation of being a philosopher is a disposition to see our tool kit as having broader applicability than it really does. When it comes to applied ethics and political philosophy, this often takes the form of seeing practical problems as resolvable with philosophy alone, rather than recognizing that their resolution almost always also turns on empirical questions that the philosophical toolkit doesn't do much to illuminate.

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Daniel Elstein's avatar

I agree with all of this, but I think that there's a bit more to say about Setiya's point about integrity. Of course you are entirely right that there is no conflict between integrity and high stakes where we should be uncertain about the relevant consequences (because of limits both on our information and on our ability to assess our information correctly). And it may be that Setiya is here misled by the stipulated certainty of (most) thought experiments, which as you say rarely if ever matches real-life practical problems. BUT... I think Setiya might insist that even if there is no direct conflict between integrity and high stakes in the real-life cases, the fact that there is a conflict in thought experiments still creates a problem. I can ask myself whether I should/would commit fraud if I *knew* that this maximised EV (by a lot); and this is often taken to be a dilemma for rule-consequentialism (and other "indirect" forms of consequentialism). Now I think we both have fairly similar responses to this familiar problem, but I at least think that the upshot is that integrity for the consequentialist looks a bit different from common-sense integrity (and the same goes for other virtues/values). The way I would put it (following Hare) is that we can think critically about integrity, or think intuitively about it, and though from both standpoints we end up endorsing it, our two strands of thinking do not seamlessly mesh together. I don't think this is ultimately a big concession for consequentialists to make, but I do at least understand why some of our opponents think that the kind of integrity they believe in is not quite the same as the kind that we believe in. One way of putting the contrast is that according to us a perfect (omniscient, unbiased, clear-thinking) moral agent would have no use for integrity; and that sounds a bit weird to common sense.

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